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starman_
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 Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:55 am Post subject: Evolution |
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It's time for those of us who find merit in the evolutionary process to state clearly that evolution is a "theory" in the same sense as Newton's "theory" of gravity and Einstein's "theory" of relativity. The following evidence of evolution has withstood vigorous and skeptical examination: the planet is approximately 4.5bn years old ...the earth with liquid water, is more than 3.6 billion years old...the emergence of life on Earth occurred around 2.5bn years ago ...cellular life has been around for at least half of that period and organized multicellular life is at least 800 million years old...major life forms now on earth were not at all represented in the past. There were no birds or mammals 250 million years ago... major life forms of the past are no longer living. There used to be dinosaurs and Pithecanthropus, and there are none now...all living forms come from previous living forms. All present forms of life arose from ancestral forms that were different. Birds arose from non birds and humans from non humans ( yes we are apes )... the trick of photosynthesis, which is described as the "ultimate source of fixed energy and food upon which human life depends", that since its emergence, life has taken various forms, all of which continue to evolve...commonalities in the structure of the genetic code of all organisms living today, including humans, clearly indicate their common primordial origin.....No person who pretends to any understanding of the natural world can deny this evidence any more than she or he can deny that the earth is round, rotates on its axis, and revolves around the sun. :note to self: don't forget Galileo and the Inquisition. Keep repeating – the earth does not revolve around the sun...the earth does not revolve around the sun... |
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schemer
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Simeon...simeon!...We are simeon, evolved into Sentient Beings by the Grace of Light. |
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_Billy_
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| I think Einstein's Theory Of Relativity has come under fire lately, and everyone knows that dinosaurs and Pithecanthropus, exhist under the ice caps of the South Pole. |
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UnknownX
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Why is this in the religious and spiritual connections forum? |
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humphreys
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:51 am Post subject: |
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| UnknownX wrote: |
| Why is this in the religious and spiritual connections forum? |
Because the only people who would reject to the statement and spark discussion have religious motives! |
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greeney2
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:26 am Post subject: |
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| No person who pretends to any understanding of the natural world can deny this evidence any more than she or he can deny that the earth is round, rotates on its axis, and revolves around the sun |
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OUr relative means of calculating age and measuring time, is a counting of these revolutions on our planet. Is time the same on other planets? It couldn;t be, since we are all on different orbits. If time is a measurment of movement, than what is time on the sun? Or when you travel outward in the universe, how does time change and do we age differently. People want to see a evolution and creation theorys somehow meet. Since we learn in the Bible God created these things in a day, what was a Day to God? Just like there is no concept of time on the Sun, that makes it easier to understand time to God was not what it is for us today. Maybe a day to God was the entire evolution period you are talking about, or just a fraction of a second. The concept of what was here before creation is a real head scratcher, and if the world was a empty void, was there time at all?
Bottom line is you may never see science and religious teaching come togather. One you can;t deny(evolution) the other most are taught to be afraid to question(creation). I'd like to see a conclusion that evolution may have been the process of creation. All I know is believing in evolution or the big bang process, doen't mean I don;t believe in God.
There is a lot of truth that if ET's exist, it would change our entire basis of thinking regarding what we all precieve as creation, but those who believe in the evolution process welcome the idea, I think. |
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humphreys
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:40 am Post subject: |
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| greeney2 wrote: |
| All I know is believing in evolution or the big bang process, doen't mean I don;t believe in God. |
This is true, and a good point. I think the fact so many people reject evolution has nothing to do with the evidence being shaky, it's because they believe evolution means no God. It doesn't.
Evolution and God belief are compatible. Once people start realizing this, I think it will be generally accepted as absolute fact that evolution occurs, to everyone. Once this is the case, the focus will move away from debating whether evolution occurs, and the focus of EVERYONE will be how, and then faster progress will be made.
Too many scientists waste precious time trying to prove evolution to people with a vested interest in rejecting it. |
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UnknownX
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| It sounds as if it should be in the science forum to me considering it was strictly talking of evolution and no mention of anything religious and or spiritual. There are Atheists that have stated they don't believe in evolution and there are Christians who say they do, so in my mind theres not much reason for this to be here without further explanation to what spiritual/religious discussion the original poster intends. |
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Questioner101
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:19 am Post subject: |
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God could have "set the clock" on matter and life and just let it go, letting it develop as it will.
Does he/she check back once in awhile, or are they busy off doing it other places??
It's the myths surrounding this process that cause problems....one set of carbon-based life-forms murdering/over-powering another set. |
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Tankdown
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| Truth demands the stripping of your own prejudice empirical. No one likes it, not the observor or the observed.... |
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starman_
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| greeney2 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| No person who pretends to any understanding of the natural world can deny this evidence any more than she or he can deny that the earth is round, rotates on its axis, and revolves around the sun |
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OUr relative means of calculating age and measuring time, is a counting of these revolutions on our planet. Is time the same on other planets? It couldn;t be, since we are all on different orbits. If time is a measurment of movement, than what is time on the sun? Or when you travel outward in the universe, how does time change and do we age differently. People want to see a evolution and creation theorys somehow meet. Since we learn in the Bible God created these things in a day, what was a Day to God? Just like there is no concept of time on the Sun, that makes it easier to understand time to God was not what it is for us today. Maybe a day to God was the entire evolution period you are talking about, or just a fraction of a second. The concept of what was here before creation is a real head scratcher, and if the world was a empty void, was there time at all?
Bottom line is you may never see science and religious teaching come togather. One you can;t deny(evolution) the other most are taught to be afraid to question(creation). I'd like to see a conclusion that evolution may have been the process of creation. All I know is believing in evolution or the big bang process, doen't mean I don;t believe in God.
There is a lot of truth that if ET's exist, it would change our entire basis of thinking regarding what we all precieve as creation, but those who believe in the evolution process welcome the idea, I think. |
Thank you for your comments greeney2. Your comments are open minded and I see that you have a strong faith in God. Here's my take on the Christian side of evolution since my mother has been a Christian all her life and raised me as such. I believe it's possible to be a Christian and an evolutionist, but this position is biblically and scientifically untenable. Jesus Christ taught a literal view of Genesis — His teachings on divorce, people not believing Moses, and much more make this very clear. Christian acceptance of evolution should be a half-way house at best. As your Christian growth takes place and you find that you can trust the Bible completely, your Christian beliefs will become very out of step with evolution. I no longer consider myself a Christian but I think I know what it means to be one. My mother is my best example of how a Christian should live his or her life. |
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greeney2
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:31 am Post subject: |
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Starman, if someone can tell us why just within the Christian faiths, there are such conflicting practices and beleifs, it would be amazing. They can;t agree on many things, and to make matters even more conflicting, churches of the same religions differ. Forinstance, Lutherans have fairly moderate views, but the Missouri Sinod, is the eqivilant to the strick southern Baptist, while they themselves have more moderate churches.
The devout Fundementalists believe every story in the bible is literal, where many moderate churches believe many are symbolic. My kids went to Lutheran schools and Catholic high schools. They got a well rounded education in religion but not something hammered at them, like "fire and brimstone". Priests were very open to discussion in their religion classes, and even taught many of the bible stories were symbolic and not nessesesarily actual events. Why one Christian church deducts things like music and dancing are sins, others don;t, some drink alcohol and some forbid it, and some believe a icon of Jesus is forbidden.
With all those kind of differences, how will they ever agree about evolution at all? It is a real delemia that does conflict with education, and the idea of things we are taught not to question, and can;t think beyond that. The taboos that religions place on people, is oppressive. Some are very severe in nature, which I've agrued over Islamic faiths, and others like this oppress some realms of thinking. I think fundementalist Christianity, is extremely oppressive to anykind of open minded thinking. Its OK to question things and search for answers, its not OK to forbid someone from doing that. |
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event_horizon
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:24 am Post subject: |
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Why would an "all-powerful" being even need to use evolution? Why not just *zap* us up like "He" allegedly did everything else?
I'm just wondering why it took over 150 million years for "God" to finally grow tired of the dinosaurs.  I guess "He" finally figured out more intelligent beings killing each other, that can plot and plan, would be more interesting/entertaining. |
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horizon
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starman_
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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I don’t actually think that evolution disproves creationism, actually if there was an “intelligent designer” this would have been an “intelligent design” to build in. It’s nature’s undo button once you figure out that giving tigers the ability to fly just wasn’t the best idea out on the market. But since the church feels that evolution cannot co-exist with creationism, point me. |
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Nesaie
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| UnknownX wrote: |
| It sounds as if it should be in the science forum to me considering it was strictly talking of evolution and no mention of anything religious and or spiritual. There are Atheists that have stated they don't believe in evolution and there are Christians who say they do, so in my mind theres not much reason for this to be here without further explanation to what spiritual/religious discussion the original poster intends. |
I've kept it here because of the whole ID debate. Besides, there are some around here who claim evolution as a religion. Under that definition, it counts.  |
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