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okiejack
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Joined: Sep 29, 2001
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 Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Personanongrata wrote: |
Please explain the point of your "observation", then:
| okiejack wrote: |
| From what I've observed, It makes no difference whether or not we torture people. Most of the enemies we have faced have tortured our troops when they get the chance. So the idea that we are preventing our people from being tortured by our not torturing, is inaccurate. |
Your point, please, your effin point. 
What reason or reasons was there for you to tell anyone here that U.S. troops get tortured? Do you think people here aren't aware of the possibility? Did you think it made you sound smart? Who holds the view that by not allowing torture, we are necessarily preventing our troops from being tortured? What are you really saying with the words, "It makes no difference whether or not we torture people."? How was that sentence intended to be received?
Your point.
Get to it. |
Nope I said exactly what I meant. Your attempt to change the meaning is pretty lame. |
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SRO
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Joined: Jul 25, 2004
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Location: BC, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| "Please tell me why there is torture being conducted, because I have missed it thus far." |
Okiejack? Bloodstone? No one's answering me... 
Is it too difficult a question despite its simplicity? |
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"Victis honor" |
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okiejack
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| SRO wrote: |
Hello from Calgary!
It's nice out here, too bad I'm working.
So I'm just posting to kindly request someone answer my question: Why does the US torture people? As I pointed out the answers are inaccurate and it lowers the respect for your people and your country and thus makes you less safe, especially for the soldiers. |
People torture others because they want to. That's the same reason any one does anything. Some people who are faced with the task of getting life saving information out of people think torturing will produce the needed information. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
You'all want to play moral one upmanship? Go right ahead. You're safe and protected so you can play games all you want. |
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SRO
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not playing a game.
And so then we allow torture too happen (we are in fact in charge of our governments, right?) because we want too? That makes sense, so the question you should ask yourself, when do you draw the line? And you would realize, it doesn't matter. People have drawn the line, and they are met with words like "unpatriotic", and "dissenter".
| Quote: |
| You'all want to play moral one upmanship? Go right ahead. |
And how are you better than them then? And what are your grounds for support the Iraq conflict? |
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Personanongrata
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Joined: Dec 31, 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| okiejack wrote: |
| Personanongrata wrote: |
Please explain the point of your "observation", then:
| okiejack wrote: |
| From what I've observed, It makes no difference whether or not we torture people. Most of the enemies we have faced have tortured our troops when they get the chance. So the idea that we are preventing our people from being tortured by our not torturing, is inaccurate. |
Your point, please, your effin point.
What reason or reasons was there for you to tell anyone here that U.S. troops get tortured? Do you think people here aren't aware of the possibility? Did you think it made you sound smart? Who holds the view that by not allowing torture, we are necessarily preventing our troops from being tortured? What are you really saying with the words, "It makes no difference whether or not we torture people."? How was that sentence intended to be received?
Your point.
Get to it. |
Nope I said exactly what I meant. Your attempt to change the meaning is pretty lame. |
Then I will take it to mean what it means, and will stand by my posts. |
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_________________
__________________________________________
"The obstacle is the path." -- Zen Proverb.
"**ck it, we'll do it live." -- Bill O'Reilly.
"...................................." -- Harpo Marx. |
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okiejack
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Joined: Sep 29, 2001
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| SRO wrote: |
I'm not playing a game.
And so then we allow torture too happen (we are in fact in charge of our governments, right?) because we want too? That makes sense, so the question you should ask yourself, when do you draw the line? And you would realize, it doesn't matter. People have drawn the line, and they are met with words like "unpatriotic", and "dissenter".
| Quote: |
| You'all want to play moral one upmanship? Go right ahead. |
And how are you better than them then? And what are your grounds for support the Iraq conflict? |
No I didn't say we allow or promote torture. What I am saying is that tying our troop's hands so they lose their lives instead of prosecuting the war, is not a good idea. And we the USA do not promote or condone torture.
I'm better, in my opinion, for same reason you think your better. I'm me and your you. I have my own thoughts. I can't have your thoughts. What I'm wondering is why you would have to ask about such an obvious thing. And besides I didn't say anything about who was better. You're the one who brought it up. |
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Personanongrata
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| You brought it up with your "moral one upmanship" line. |
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_________________
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"The obstacle is the path." -- Zen Proverb.
"**ck it, we'll do it live." -- Bill O'Reilly.
"...................................." -- Harpo Marx. |
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Personanongrata
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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Okiejack, perhaps you want your cake & to eat it, too.
You would like to believe you're a patriot, and a good person, and a christian... and you also would like to look the other way when it benefits you. |
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_________________
__________________________________________
"The obstacle is the path." -- Zen Proverb.
"**ck it, we'll do it live." -- Bill O'Reilly.
"...................................." -- Harpo Marx. |
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SRO
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't mean better than me, or me better than you.
I don't think I'm better. That's what I find great about me, I don't think I'm better than you, I don't think I'm better than Jaack... Hell, I don't think I'm better than G.W.Bush.
People can judge me and decide what I'm worth too them as individuals and have their own opinions of my actions. You are all entitled too your opinion of me, and it will never matter too me. The only time it matters, in my death, I am confident not only will people see my true intent, and it won't concern me if they don't. (considering I'd be dead and all)
But ok, so you don't support it, but your government does. |
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okiejack
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Joined: Sep 29, 2001
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| SRO wrote: |
I didn't mean better than me, or me better than you.
I don't think I'm better. That's what I find great about me, I don't think I'm better than you, I don't think I'm better than Jaack... Hell, I don't think I'm better than G.W.Bush.
People can judge me and decide what I'm worth too them as individuals and have their own opinions of my actions. You are all entitled too your opinion of me, and it will never matter too me. The only time it matters, in my death, I am confident not only will people see my true intent, and it won't concern me if they don't. (considering I'd be dead and all)
But ok, so you don't support it, but your government does. |
Nope you are wrong about our government supporting "torture". In my opinion our government does not support torture. |
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okiejack
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Joined: Sep 29, 2001
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Personanongrata wrote: |
| okiejack wrote: |
| Personanongrata wrote: |
Please explain the point of your "observation", then:
| okiejack wrote: |
| From what I've observed, It makes no difference whether or not we torture people. Most of the enemies we have faced have tortured our troops when they get the chance. So the idea that we are preventing our people from being tortured by our not torturing, is inaccurate. |
Your point, please, your effin point.
What reason or reasons was there for you to tell anyone here that U.S. troops get tortured? Do you think people here aren't aware of the possibility? Did you think it made you sound smart? Who holds the view that by not allowing torture, we are necessarily preventing our troops from being tortured? What are you really saying with the words, "It makes no difference whether or not we torture people."? How was that sentence intended to be received?
Your point.
Get to it. |
Nope I said exactly what I meant. Your attempt to change the meaning is pretty lame. |
Then I will take it to mean what it means, and will stand by my posts. |
Thanks for the silly games. |
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Personanongrata
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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The games are yours. You play them when you backtrack on what you say, and refuse to clearly explain what you post.
Now, I would still like you to address my questions.
I would still like to hear your explanations, if you can give any. |
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_________________
__________________________________________
"The obstacle is the path." -- Zen Proverb.
"**ck it, we'll do it live." -- Bill O'Reilly.
"...................................." -- Harpo Marx. |
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BloodStone
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Joined: Apr 29, 2005
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Location: Poconos, USSA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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I also answered you're question SRO, apparently you didn't read my response..
As as I know we do not torture people , we outsource it, so we don't get dirty.
If you are referring to GITMO, that was not torture, except for the case of the one death. The rest was extreme, but not torture.
If other countries want to judge us,then they have no right talking about our way, when we are getting our heads chopped off.Not to mention most countries judging us are guilty of worse humanitarian issues than we are. If they are willing to help than they have the right. But to stand by and be a monday morning quarterback, is wrong.
BloodStone... |
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If it were raining hookers, I'd get hit by a fag. |
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Computer_Guy
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Location: US
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| BloodStone wrote: |
I also answered you're question SRO, apparently you didn't read my response..
As as I know we do not torture people , we outsource it, so we don't get dirty.
If you are referring to GITMO, that was not torture, except for the case of the one death. The rest was extreme, but not torture.
If other countries want to judge us,then they have no right talking about our way, when we are getting our heads chopped off.Not to mention most countries judging us are guilty of worse humanitarian issues than we are. If they are willing to help than they have the right. But to stand by and be a monday morning quarterback, is wrong.
BloodStone... |
Hmmm, so having folks torture our prisoners for us by proxy, completely absovlves our government of responsibility ?
The American people are the true keepers of this nation. Anything the American government does is done in our name. Not only should we watch what our government is doing to insure it is within our traditional national values, but we have a responsibility to do so. Monday morning quarterbacking has nothing to do with it, this isn't a freaking game. |
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BloodStone
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Joined: Apr 29, 2005
Posts: 1839
Location: Poconos, USSA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Hmmm, so having folks torture our prisoners for us by proxy, completely absovlves our government of responsibility ? |
I didn't say that. All I said was they do not torture? please don't put words in my mouth. I also didn't say I agree with it. In this fight we are in I remember something that was said.
We are going to have to deal with some shady characters. even some down right evil people if we are going to make a difference in this fight.
I will say that if we are involved in torture, I don't think we need to know, We can not expect our people to fight by all the rules( why there are rules in war I'll never get that but) while every one else tramples on our agreement with the Geneva convention.
Terrorists have no remorse cutting the heads off their captives.They abide by no rules. The only way to strike fear in them, is to be even more brutal than them.
It's sad, but that is the only thing that will make them think twice. We have tried being the nice country,look where it got us.
I have a problem with anyone torturing anyone,but I also have no problem with what was going on at GITMO. It was not outside the realm of being reasonable high stress interogation. In most cases there.
BloodStone... |
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