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martiandrifter01
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Joined: Mar 28, 2008
Posts: 715
Location: Xanthe Terra, Sol IV/Mars
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 Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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"Any society willing to give up a little liberty to gain a little security deserves neither, and will lose both." (Forgot who said it but it's good)
The issue is that people have changed. Many don't have the level of respect for law that was once prevalent, and moral standards have slipped badly. Drug use is rampant. Faith in our Government is at an all-time low. At the same time, more people look to the Government for help. Less people seem to comprehend the need for security or secrecy.
Drug lords, terrorists and foreign spies are REAL. Organized crime is REAL. The average street cop doesn't always have the technology they put into Southern California squad cars and tracking down the baddies gets tougher every year.
So I say, let 'em have legal concessions to do surveillance by whatever means it takes for now. We should continue to 'watch the watchers' and keep time limits on any concessions; not doing so would be folly.
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Just for fun, and maybe a chance to learn a little solar system astronomy...
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screamzero
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Joined: Feb 08, 2008
Posts: 2185
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| lashmar wrote: |
Tell me something scream, when did the US. Get rid of coloured busses, colourer schools and the like. The US. Just like the rest of the world isn’t free.
A road is the perfect example; you can go anywhere you want so long as it’s where they said you can go there.
The US. Is free compared to some places in the world, but it’s nowhere near it my friend.
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That's all fine and good... Except for the sorry ass fact that while Bush and Co. "Spread Liberty And Democracy Around The World", they institute things like the Patriot Act, allowing them to wiretap us and read our emails without warrants, they designate alleyways 5 blocks away from conventions as free speech zones, and have made it "Unpatriotic" to disagree with the government, allowing for people to be tasered because they speak their mind or ask the people who work for THEM too many questions that their servants don't like. And their BS doesn't stop there, this is a group of people who talk about how wrong it is to have Islamic theocratic governments, going as far as sacrificing the lives of OTHER PEOPLES children to fight against it, but at the same time talk about how they would support an amendment banning same sex marriage based on their religious belief that God wants only men and women getting married, naaaaah that isn't f'n hypocritical at all.
Yeah, 3 cheers for spreading liberty and democracy around the world... While putting limits on it at home. |
well said rob. |
If the US ain't so free why is everybody breaking in here, socialist Brit Balls?...and I figure England has some freedom probs you like to severely bitch about, or are you happy w/ the freedom instilled there since the colonies laid out a bright example for western Eur-oopes to follow...you are still democracies aren't You? Tell ya what, tear yo happy white ass to a Slavic block where you won't be bigoted against for being a whitey (just to give ya a better chance, Choncy), except for a couple of Muslim cats that live there that know you for the infidel that you are, & tell us what you think, Slick...what? ....to chicken tarded to whoop it out Gallagher? Go on . Git the F outta Dodge pickle lips, and try your chances in in the middle e east or China.
Have a nice freedom slam...mouthage. |
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theking
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Joined: Aug 19, 2008
Posts: 562
Location: Washington, D.C.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:56 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, giving up liberties for security is bad.
If you would like, you can go live in Afghanistan where they have no real police and you are pretty much free to do what you want. |
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"Sleep, and you will never awake anew." |
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lashmar
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Joined: Aug 13, 2008
Posts: 582
Location: england
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:40 am Post subject: |
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[quote="screamzero]If the US ain't so free why is everybody breaking in here, socialist Brit Balls?...and I figure England has some freedom probs you like to severely bitch about, or are you happy w/ the freedom instilled there since the colonies laid out a bright example for western Eur-oopes to follow...you are still democracies aren't You? Tell ya what, tear yo happy white ass to a Slavic block where you won't be bigoted against for being a whitey (just to give ya a better chance, Choncy), except for a couple of Muslim cats that live there that know you for the infidel that you are, & tell us what you think, Slick...what? ....to chicken tarded to whoop it out Gallagher? Go on . Git the F outta Dodge pickle lips, and try your chances in in the middle e east or China.
Have a nice freedom slam...mouthage.[/quote]
You must have real small balls to resort to calling somebody names like that sunshine. |
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The sixtheenth commandment “And when asked why, thy in power, shall do, Bugger all to help the general public, yea must answer `don’t worry sheep, lessons have been learned” and if thy sheep are still pissed, say `sorry`” |
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screamzero
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Joined: Feb 08, 2008
Posts: 2185
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| lashmar wrote: |
[quote="screamzero]If the US ain't so free why is everybody breaking in here, socialist Brit Balls?...and I figure England has some freedom probs you like to severely bitch about, or are you happy w/ the freedom instilled there since the colonies laid out a bright example for western Eur-oopes to follow...you are still democracies aren't You? Tell ya what, tear yo happy white ass to a Slavic block where you won't be bigoted against for being a whitey (just to give ya a better chance, Choncy), except for a couple of Muslim cats that live there that know you for the infidel that you are, & tell us what you think, Slick...what? ....to chicken tarded to whoop it out Gallagher? Go on . Git the F outta Dodge pickle lips, and try your chances in in the middle e east or China.
Have a nice freedom slam...mouthage. |
You must have real small balls to resort to calling somebody names like that sunshine.[/quote]
... sniff ma balls and find out. |
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lashmar
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Joined: Aug 13, 2008
Posts: 582
Location: england
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:22 am Post subject: |
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| screamzero wrote: |
| ... sniff ma balls and find out. |
i knew you were queer  |
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_________________
The sixtheenth commandment “And when asked why, thy in power, shall do, Bugger all to help the general public, yea must answer `don’t worry sheep, lessons have been learned” and if thy sheep are still pissed, say `sorry`” |
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inja
B.V. VIP - Contributor
Joined: Sep 28, 2001
Posts: 10244
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| The spread of liberty and democracy makes the world safer for America. |
It probably would be a good idea for us to take this advice.....quite often the world is not safe from America.
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| If the US ain't so free why is everybody breaking in here, socialist Brit Balls?. |
Not everybody is making for a run to us. The number if illegal has dropped considerably over the last year. Looking at Europe you can see that they have definitely become a major melting pot of different nationalities. Canada is quite diverse. Australia has it's own problems of people heading in their direction.
No screamzero we are a long way away from being that beacon of light that we used to portray. Nope things are changing radically. Winds are changing even our political clout has changed over the last few years, we don't quite carry the same influence as we used too. |
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"All truth passes through 3 stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
-- Arthur Schopenhauer |
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screamzero
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Joined: Feb 08, 2008
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| inja wrote: |
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| The spread of liberty and democracy makes the world safer for America. |
It probably would be a good idea for us to take this advice.....quite often the world is not safe from America.
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| If the US ain't so free why is everybody breaking in here, socialist Brit Balls?. |
Not everybody is making for a run to us. The number if illegal has dropped considerably over the last year. Looking at Europe you can see that they have definitely become a major melting pot of different nationalities. Canada is quite diverse. Australia has it's own problems of people heading in their direction.
No screamzero we are a long way away from being that beacon of light that we used to portray. Nope things are changing radically. Winds are changing even our political clout has changed over the last few years, we don't quite carry the same influence as we used too. |
...wonder why
Like ICE ; the DEA and the economy hasn't been so easy on the illegal immigrant either; would that have anything to do w/ it...ya think? It's been on the regular media, believe it or not (chagrining what enforcing laws already in the books will do, ain't it?)...and if what we have done as a republic isn't so swooft, why are there more democratic Republic type governments than ever before in history? The number of electoral democracies reaches 122 as freedom spreads. Have we been over throwing countries lately? (watch some ass say, "Ya. Look at Iraq!") The idea that America started isn't so good anymore? maybe there are a fist full that would wish this so, but you can bank that the fundamental ideals are still desired by the sane.
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The number of electoral democracies around the world rose from 119 to 122 this year, setting a new record as freedom made inroads in the Middle East and Africa, an independent monitoring group said.
But in its annual report rating every nation in the world as "free," "partly free" or "not free," Freedom House on Monday expressed concern about countries like the United States and France, where it saw "looming problems" with electoral setups and immigrant integration. |
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=051220134942.8w8uaqyp&show_article=1
...some of these looming problems are a result of betraying our Americanism with rhetoric socialist babble and policy as "liberal" policy and having so late in the game enforcing good immigration policies we already have in the books, instead of applying true liberalism as was defined in 1776, which held in good stead until 1/3rd of the way through the Industrial Revolution (the Great Depression)...and amazingly continued to do quite well there after in spite of the dabbling judiciously into socialism, although that continued trend (Johnson's Great Society, which is now choking the hell out of us in the immigration front) ...of the dabbling judiciously into socialism that helped save our butts back in the 1930's (in retrospect, this served greatly as a psychological salve for the nation, that should have definitely been temporary, like income tax was suppose to e: Great Mistake number One; off the Gold standard mistake #2; fractional banking, the real biggie that led to the ability to legislate fiat finance and interest manipulation (cirac 1995 by B.J.Clinton)...all be it I feel Social Security is a good thing... but should give more leeway to individual determination as to its course of application. ..(.for another rant).
..and that quip of yours:
"It probably would be a good idea for us to take this advice.....quite often the world is not safe from America." [i]Why are you still here?...maybe you do not live in the States...h-m-m-m...in any case,
THAT is a pugnacious line every socialist jackal preaches when slicing at the United States of America... relativist opinion...and if you little democratic socialists ever wake up out of your relativist opinions about what is right and wrong, you'd get it through the thickness that is the political snit d'jour, "Democracy or we show you Anarchy" (like a bunch of adolescent delinquents), you could learn that democracies vote themselves out of existence straight into socialism.
That fallacy that even many of our knuckle headed leaders purport of, spreading democracy to the world at large, is a misconception from Hell, reinforced by the nagging repetition of the word "democracy" as if it were a call from on high. Nothing could be further from the truth.
What America has successfully managed to do in spite of her socialist democrats is support other Republics that would employ democratic process without (and not because of us, thanks to ignorance, but by some miraculous serendipity) without centralizing their governments to much (of their own good choices, thanks to Providence that once we had), which is an irony to us since our brain washed population whimpers for more democracy from within instead of relegating democratic process to its proper place ONLY as a legislative tool as a means; and NOT as an end....due to the very hard fact that a Democracy will vote itself into socialism (and by defacto, eventual centralist governing tyranny) if not sequestered within a Republic of unbroken laws, Laws defined by our very American Constitution that are being venomously defied. ...and we shall hear more rationalization and justification about that too from guess who.
Todays result of mismanaged national macro-economy is a direct result of centralized manipulation of our economy from our congressional and senatorial halls in collusion with "money oilers" to the point of falter done by manipulators of democratic governance defying proper legislative procedure and oversight for their own self interest. Warnings and objections put forth to Congress and senators a number of times by some of our better economic authorities and politicians (yup, there a good one or two of 'em) and even an assertion to detour this mess today by Bush at one point, fell on ears deafened by greed, cupidity and avarice.
...because of Many of our senators - Obama for one- and congressmen -Pelosi and clowns - by not sticking to the original precepts founded from America's inception of Laissez Fare (hands off economics and letting the invisible hand of market pressure do its job) the economic balance is a tad bit off. Yet the concept's strength still seems to confound the fools. Adam Smith knew what the hell he was up to.
Regulations; taxations; over licensing, and usury by interest manipulation -largely supported by Democrat's policies-is the culprit and is deftly killing business; destroying our capitalist energy.
We now have to centralize a large part of our economy to the government as a direct result of the abuse of democratic process through legislative manipulation by people that did not give a crap about this country's hallowed primary fiscal principles. These jerks legally broke economic laws that at one time made us legend.
.. and yet, like a miracle, American savvy has forestalled a world wide depression on Friday the 19th, 2008. Did any of you and your Libertine Socialists know this? I'll bet hardlyone took second note of the very nature of how. We know what for, but most seem to hardly know why..(study American economics circa 1995).
Here's the kicker -socialist principles were employed to do save us again..as was done during The Great depression, but with a twist, and we had no choice. The damage from the libertine legislative manipulators is very great; but by a socialist technique we are now obliged to forfeit, thanks o the jackals among us, more fiscal power to the government. Great work...and this ilk squeaks of giving freedom away for security. Bone heads. Democratic manipulation of legislation to trick wealth to a few is what killed this freedom of fiscal power that was one ours only a few days ago.
This is a perfect example of democracy mutating into socialism with the goods and services getting centralized to the government -now to save our asses. This did not have to be. <---INJA...This is what of America the world should fear: the stupid blundering of our original functions within our economy due by fools...and you whacko libs want to continue this process of depredation by supporting democratic socialism and incorporating increased social services ad nauseum. The gift of desperation only works on those that feel pain, not the cretins numbed with self-indulgence; forcing people to strive towards a better life w/ hard work and ingenuity to solve their problems - not asking the government to fix all the little "ouchies". No guts, no glory.
Here's the country you and yours are wrecking....the lack of conservative principles applied to this country's inner wheels will be the epitaph you and your libertines get. This is why the liberal loons are gasping at the conservative rally that is happening before your eyes. We are sick of knuckle heads dumb assing our Republic into a socialist democracy.
Todays Liberalism is not in its original coat; todays liberalism is democratic socialism. A democracy will vote itself into extinction. A solid republic w/ sound social and economic principles won't. What America had to export the left has jacked into stupidity, causing business to shift to foreign lands....not integrating well and not being individual enough to keep our fiscal and energy integrity...all in the name of not, "the quick buck"; but in the name of the "easy buck". Enjoy yourselves while you can, it is not America that is the threat, it is socialist democracy that is also engulfing Europe at an alarming rate that is the threat to ourselves; some of us are reacting to the pain....I dare say those of us that employ the proper ointment will export good and correct American integrity again and again and again and again, 'till death do us part. |
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inja
B.V. VIP - Contributor
Joined: Sep 28, 2001
Posts: 10244
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:48 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Like ICE ; the DEA and the economy hasn't been so easy on the illegal immigrant either; would that have anything to do w/ it...ya think? It's been on the regular media, believe it or not (chagrining what enforcing laws already in the books will do, ain't it?)...and if what we have done as a republic isn't so swooft, why are there more democratic Republic type governments than ever before in history? The number of electoral democracies reaches 122 as freedom spreads. Have we been over throwing countries lately? (watch some ass say, "Ya. Look at Iraq!") The idea that America started isn't so good anymore? maybe there are a fist full that would wish this so, but you can bank that the fundamental ideals are still desired by the sane. |
No I don't think our economy has anything to do with it. I believe it is our treatment of illegal aliens that has made the greatest impact. Incarcerations over longer periods of time before sending them home. Dividing families and placing their children in foster homes.
I do believe you are taking my words out of context. Or maybe you just don't know how to talk to individuals who differ a bit with your opinions in life. But I will admit i do enjoy your sarcasm when I have the time to come visit the BV.
I didn't say nor indicate that the Republic isn't swooft. (By the way you the heck uses the word swooft...lol....). I said we have quite often been a danger to the rest of the world. There is no debating that point screamzero. You can if you like but you will be blowing nothing more than hot air. We have had no problems using dictatorships for our benefit. We have no problem trampling on other countries citizens and their rights. We have had no problem trying to wipe out those who we could no longer use. Our history is full of examples. And we loooooove to dictate to the world how it should be run. Are there positive traits to some of those incidents? Sure. All things have a positive and negative side. I can't argue that one.
But as I see it. The world is a bit like a seesaw. Power balances shift. You gain you lose and some one else rises. We are declining. I also am not saying I appreciate our decline in the world. I wish we would have utilized our power with more wisdom.
Europe is it's own economic powerhouse. Are they on the decline well of course they are. Are they a threat to my well being because they are socialist democracies? No. I lived there for many years. And I find American ignorance about so many things in Europe to be very silly.
It's the West that is on the losing end. And it would benefit you greatly if you could climb out of your National pride for even just a few moments to view the world more on a global scale instead of the worms view of nationalism or patriotism. |
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_________________
"All truth passes through 3 stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
-- Arthur Schopenhauer |
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